# ID: TpdYT_itu9U

## Title: How HVAC Design & Redundancy Protect Cannabis Grow Rooms & Boost Yields with John Zimmerman Part 1

## Type: video

## Author: HVAC Know It All

## Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpdYT_itu9U

## Upload Date: 2025-08-14

## Views: 266

## Likes: 7

## Comments: None

## Duration: 1194 seconds

## Thumbnail: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/TpdYT_itu9U/maxresdefault.jpg

## Description:
In this episode of the HVAC Know It All Podcast, host Gary McCreadie chats with John Zimmerman, Founder & CEO of Harvest Integrated, to kick off a two-part conversation about the unique challenges of HVAC systems in the cannabis industry. John, who has a strong background in data center cooling, brings valuable expertise to the table, now applied to creating optimal environments for indoor grow operations. At Harvest Integrated, John and his team provide “climate as a service,” helping cannabis ...

## Transcript:
Hey, welcome back guys. So, listen. There's a phrase I'm going to throw at you and you're going to hear about this type of business model happening more and more and more. There's cases where I agree with it, there's cases where I don't agree with it, but we're going to talk about it regardless. So, climate as a service is the phrase. So, we're going to speak to John Zimmerman. John is a he's an engineer and he's got a business called Harvest Integrated. Now he's in the cannabis grow op sector I guess you could call it and what John does is his firm designs the retrofit or brand new systems for for cannabis grow operations. Now when they design it and maintain it and they also maintain it, install it and service it. So when they do all that there is a a fee per month to have the equipment. So, the owner of the building or the business that's growing the cannabis, they are not paying whatever it costs for the equipment. They're not buying it. They're not paying someone to install it. Uh they're not paying for the service and maintenance. They're basically paying for climate as a service, which is a monthly fee that's set for like a 10-year period, for example, and it's the same fee every month. And what they get is the equipment. They get it installed. They get it maintained and serviced and and they get the facility monitored as well. So, it's a business model that seems to be growing across North America. All right. Uh so this conversation here it's more along the lines of business. It's more along the lines of design because he's an engineer. He's not a technician, John. Um but what I have asked is that his technician that he works heavily with that monitors the sites, maintains and services the equipment. We have a conversation with him as well so we can get a little bit deeper into the weeds when it comes to the technical aspect of a cannabis grow up when it comes to HVAC. So as I said guys this is business this is a design um but you you can learn from this and you can learn how this industry is changing with these new business models put in play like climate as a service. So let's go. We got John Zimmerman from Harvest Integrated guys. This is the HVAC Knowit podcast. I'm your host Gary McCree. Top contractors across the US only. This one's going to be pretty cool to expand your marketing reach. Property.com is an exclusive network for certified pros. You can get your own customppropy.com webpage for free. You can also get AI powered reputation management and get some great lead generation and prospecting tools. The know before you go tool is pretty cool. It gives critical homeowner data like how much they've paid on past jobs. Joinpropy.com's exclusive network now to expand your reach with homeowners across the US. Use mccry.propy.com. So that's mcc rea dropy.com to fill out the form to get approved. All right, John. So indoor grow is something that is um over the last decade or so, it's become more of a an industry niche, especially from the HVAC side because the the environment needs to be maintained very very well in different applications. So, I guess at a high level, we need to talk about the the environment, the way we're going to control it, like with what equipment, how we're going to do it, the control devices that need to be in in play, like humidity, temperature, all that kind of stuff. And and let's just talk about that in general, and then we can get into the business that you're in and how you help people in this industry, niche. Sure. Yeah. Uh, not a problem. So prior to jumping into this industry, uh myself and my team, most of us were really focused on data centers and providing data center cooling. So uh we really like to try and draw that analogy to to data center facilities um with these facilities in terms of HVAC design, NDP design really. Um and kind of if you were boil it all down to just kind of one statement, it's you would like to say that uh these are basically data centers with a pool in the middle. What we mean by that is that you've got highdensity heat loads, you've got high density power loads. We're talking about a critical environment. So, 247 operations. If they lose a crop, you might be talking about losing an entire business. Um, and so we really kind of use a lot of the same principles we we learned when we were designing and building data centers, especially in terms of HVAC. The only difference being, and it's a major difference, which is the humidity output from the plants. Um, so these plants typically transpire or sweat somewhere around 90 to 95% of the water that they're being fed. And you're talking about anywhere from um a half a gallon up to a gallon per plant depending on who the grower is, the type of strain that it may be. And when you say a gallon to half a gallon, are you talking and and what time period is that? Sorry. Yeah, per day. Per day. And they'll have different regimens on how they distribute that, how they how they give that to the plant. But uh the long story short is it's a critical environment that you've got to keep everything operating properly because it's it's got such an impact on the quality of the product that our clients are trying to produce. And then you got to consider things like redundancy and proper redundancy well as indoor air quality those types of things. So yeah, that's kind of the general high level of the need in the space in terms of HVAC design. Okay, cool. Now let's go back to you said data centers and I have a lot of experience in data centers because I when I started in the trade I was installing a lot of VRF for data centers, Libert systems, stuff like that. Then I moved from installing them to becoming uh a service technician and I did a lot of the data centers uh that the company that I worked for had at the time and I really enjoyed data centers. I enjoyed data centers. I shouldn't say I enjoyed all data centers. I I enjoyed the data centers that were built properly, designed properly, had the redundancy. There was one data center that I think of now, there were seven uh 30 ton liberts in there. I could shut two of them off, maybe even three if I got lucky, and we would still maintain temperature in that space. And that that's that's the amazing part about redundancy is that when you design it with redundancy, you can have downtime. You can make repairs to one unit and not worrying about bringing in fans or extra machines. You're not having the IT guys breathing down your neck. Hey, when are you going to be done? All that kind of stuff. And and it's it's a clean environment. It's inside. Um it's comfy cozy in there. It's nice and cool. Like on a hot summer day, you walk into the it's it's dehumidified. It's nice and cool. You're working in um an environment where you're not on the roof or in an attic or or something like that. So, I really enjoyed them. The ones I didn't enjoy were the calls where they didn't have redundancy, but they were told they needed it. And you get there, it's down, the room's 90°, the servers are shutting down, they got fans, everybody's panicking. And I used to panic. I used to panic all the time. And and I'd walk in and I'd be trying to rush and get things up and running really, really quick. And I started to understand that it's really not my problem. It's my problem to fix it, but it's not my problem to be share their their anxious anxiousness or their anxiety because it's not my fault that I didn't design it right with redundancy. So if I get there, hey, it's going to take the time it takes to get it fixed. I can't make this go any faster. Next time you guys put in backup. So just talk about the redundancy portion and we we'll we'll obviously talk about the the growroom situation but because you said data centers and you've got experience I wanted to pull that out of you. How important is redundancy in in these types of applications? Oh it's critical. I mean hence the the term you know critical environment. Um so I when we got into this industry the the cannabis industry the grow industry if you will you know we had to kind of look back on the things we did in the data center space. So in in in data centers, um you could have some clients who need heavy redundancy looking at two ends. So if you have four units that are covering the load, they want another four units there just to make it shut all of them off and still keep uh keep the room online. In less critical environments than that, you may have M plus one. So if you have four units covering the load, you just need that fifth there um in case one goes down or you need to turn one off, whatever it may be. Um, when you get down to it, what we're talking about in terms of redundancy is we're really talking about the client's risk level and what they're willing to tolerate, right? Um, and then in addition to that, it's all right. Well, exactly what is the risk that's going on here if something goes out. So, we've told clients in this industry that these aren't servers that are going to die if you lose cooling within five minutes. Okay? uh and and those servers may be servicing something along the lines of credit card transactions or 911 call centers, whatever it may be. So, I would call that hyperritical. Um you you almost are getting to the point of life or death depending on um how much redundancy may be there. But a plant's not going to die within 20 minutes, 30 minutes of of losing cooling. So, as an equipment salesperson, I would love to sell you more equipment, Mr. Owner. But the way we would approach it as designers, um, and really just because this is we like to shoot them straight is, you know, we have the ability to where we could, you know, header all of your supply air duct between the between the rooms and isolate those off and if one unit goes down or a unit goes down in a room, we can open up that damper and now you have more or less in plus.5. Um, because most of these guys are are are kind of getting pushed into having one extra unit. you know, they're not exactly sure how much capacity they have if something goes down. Um, so we really try to give them options. Uh, but in the end, without redundancy, you're really just leaving yourself up to chance and and you're leaving yourself up to somebody who who may come in and say, "Hey, I'm not the one who designed it this way, so therefore it's going to take what it takes." I mean, that may be so much that they they lose a crop, they get mold in the space, and have to remediate it. Um, and that may be enough to really hinder the business, to really put them out of business. So while it may not be exactly as critical as um as the data center space or as data center facilities, it's still very critical and it is absolutely something that needs to be um needs to be addressed in these these are critical facilities at the end of the day. Yeah, for sure. Now I I don't work in in grow uh situations. I would love to because I I like to experience things at a high level in the industry. Like I've worked on machines like a Dtron which is a pool dehumidification system which can reheat pool water and heat the space, cool the space, uh but also dehumidify the space too because obviously you have a lot of humidity in in a in an area that's got a pool in it. So I enjoy that type of equipment now because I don't know much about plants and and the cannabis industry and and how to grow it. Like we have different stages of the plant, right? So do those stages of the plant growth have different environments? They do. Yes. So we're if you go all the way to the, you know, kind of very beginning, you have um you're either getting more most of these guys are getting their plants from what are called clones. These are small clippings from a from a mother plant and they'll have all these clones kind of sitting in a room and they're they're different strains that they're going to be put populating inside of the space. Uh, so they'll pick those and when they start growing they're they're in what's called the vegetative phase. So that that first phase is very immature plants. So they're not sweating as much. They're not producing as much humidity. So you don't have you probably more in like the 08 0.9 sensible heat ratio range with those those rooms. After two to three weeks of that, they move them into the flower room. The flower room is is kind of what you've seen in terms of pictures of what a grow room looks like. uh they'll stay in that flower room for upwards of about eight weeks. And actually they may even have we've have clients who will have kind of different humidity and temperature set points that they're looking for for each week of that flower that flower period. And then what you have what you get at the end of that flower period is the last two weeks. Uh most of these growers like to do what's called a flush. And so they will try and drop that temperature in the room down to say, you know, 70° and they try to drop the uh humidity down to say 45 to 48%. Some of sometimes they're looking for conditions that just physically you can't meet without freezing up a unit. So we got to educate them on that. But that last two weeks they're trying to pull a lot of the tarpen out of the plant. Um they're trying to get a lot of the color out of the plant. I'm not a grower myself, so I don't want to go too far into that that realm there. But uh so then you got to deal with that kind of at the end of the the flower phase. And then once they harvest it from the flower room, they have to do a dry and cure period. So that dry and cure period, what you want to do is in the first couple days of that period, you want to uh remove 50% or so of the wet weight of the plant. So you've got the first two days where you're dehumidifying and you don't have any lights. So you really don't have any sense below, but air flow is a big deal when it comes time for drying. So you need, you know, so depending on who it may be, anywhere from 10 to 20 air changes per hour. You need great filtration that's in there. But what happens in the dry space is you really need to have a unit there that has the ability to heat and cool to dehumidify and humidify. You need to be able to kind of manage that environment exactly the way it needs to be. So if if you need to add humidity to the room, there better be a humidifier nearby, which is generally not top of mind when people are looking at this space. But it is critical because in that drying phase is, you know, you're kind of producing that finished product that's going to go sit on a shelf somewhere. So yeah, you will have different units and different designs for the vegetative room, the flower room, and then the dry and cure room. And then within that flower room, you you may even have, you know, anywhere from two to four different kind of phases that require different set points and different humidity levels. So yeah, it's in my opinion, it is one of the more complex HVAC designs that is out there. And that's kind of what's created this environment for our company to come in and say, "Hey, you know, we see a lot of you have kind of scaled up what you were doing in your basement. Um, and while you got 10 tons in that unit, that 10 tons is really designed for for dry air in an office building, not for humid air in a critical environment. So, it's caused this kind of gap of expertise that we're able to kind of fill in. Tell us the loads that we need to look at heavily in order like where do these loads come from?" So, the plant, yes, you said it. it it lets off 90% of its of the water that it takes in. There are lamps. I don't know if there's like people I don't know how many people are are in a grow operation, but what are the loads that we're looking at when we're designing or sizing up a piece of equipment for a a particular room? Sure. So, let's start with indoor. That one's that's pretty easy. Static, I would say. You're basically talking about a sensible load coming from the lights. that is, you know, if not all, that's probably 95% of where that sensible load's coming from. And then you're talking about the irrigation that's being fed to the plant. So, um, whatever irrigation that's going into that plant, we've got calculations on how to determine what it's going to sweat. But if indoors, if you've grown indoors, what you're talking about are basically lights and you're talking about the irrigation and that's going to more more or less create your total load. Um I draw a distinction here because then you have greenhouse and you have sealed greenhouse which we've done those as well and we've designed those as well. What's different there is is you're really talking about the solar radiation. So Ashray states that roughly you know 50 that once the solar radiation kind of penetrates the window of or the glass of the greenhouse um it you can estimate it to be around 50% will turn into uh latent 50% will turn into sensible and that's that's a good rule of thumb for sure but you're definitely dealing with something different in terms of the sun and the solar radiation and then you've got to if if there's too much sun one day if there's you know not enough sun one day you know they these guys will curtains that they've got to pull and the and the systems have to be able to react to these things. Gotcha. Okay. So, your your business Harvest Integrated, can you just tell us what that is? Like are you guys uh manufacturing systems, designing systems, like just just give us a breakdown of what you guys are doing? Sure. Great. No, we uh we do what's called climate as a service. Um, and what we mean by climate as a service is that we will buy, own, operate, we will uh repair if needed. We will replace if needed uh the entire system all in exchange for a long-term agreement with a monthly fee to our clients. Um, we we really kind of took a page out of the data center space again with this. We actually took a data center agreement between a data center developer and the tenant because what we wanted to do was was create a business model that our clients knew gave us an incentive to really have some skin in the game. Right? So, uh, one of the things we've took from that is is that all right, we'll we'll put in the agreement what the design set points are that we are going to maintain. If for whatever reason the room gets out of those design set points with a little cushion on it uh for an extended period of time defined by the agreement, we're on the hook for paying you, Mr. Client, what's called service level credits that we will apply to your next month's uh bill. Because what we learned in this industry is try to put this delicately. The procurement process was not as formal as you might be used to say in the data center industry or most other commercial industries. You would have anywhere from um a situation where an owner bought units thinking that they had support behind those units when really all they had was a one-year parts warranty. Um when they heard the word warranty sometimes they thought that was a guarantee. That's not what it is. When they heard the war word warranty, they thought, "Oh, okay. Parts and labor." And you know, as we kind of know, most most common what you'll see is just a one-year parts warranty with a lot of this stuff. So, um inevitably, we'd be talking to clients who would, man, I can't get my units up. They keep crashing. I can't call people, they won't come and help. And so we wanted to just create a model that more or less checked all the boxes that they were looking for with all the problems that they were having starting with capital um starting with getting it designed properly and then operating it properly and if something's going wrong that you don't have to figure out who to call. Half these guys don't know who to call when it comes time for that. I get what you're saying there. Uh so tell me how like let's say I'm a client and I have a a grow operation that I'm about to start. What is like the so if someone reaches out to you is it first we go into the design process with with the client. How does it all work? Yes. So it that's exactly how I mean it works very traditionally where um if it's a new build or an expansion we're going to get a call and they're going to ask us you know for a quote on the equipment and like I said we we do what we call climate as a service. So um right off the bat what we'll do is run loads just by getting their irrigation rates getting their light light count their loads the heat loads. uh we'll be able to produce a um a proposal at least a gener an upfront proposal uh from that but then we have to really visit the site to kind of find out is the is the duck work big enough or or do we have enough space for this duck work? Do they have enough electrical capacity? Now I'm kind of getting into more of the retrofit phase because we serve both the industry there. Oh, you serve both sides of the industry. Okay, that's correct. Yeah.

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# ID: 1kEjVqBwluU

## Title: HVAC Rental Trap for Homeowners to Avoid Long-Term Losses and Bad Installs with Scott Pierson Part 2

## Type: video

## Author: HVAC Know It All

## Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kEjVqBwluU

## Upload Date: 2025-08-11

## Views: 378

## Likes: 10

## Comments: None

## Duration: 1015 seconds

## Thumbnail: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1kEjVqBwluU/maxresdefault.jpg

## Description:
In part 2 of this episode of the HVAC Know It All Podcast, host Gary McCreadie, Director of Player Development and Head Coach at Shelburne Soccer Club, and President of McCreadie HVAC & Refrigeration Services and HVAC Know It All Inc, switches roles again to be interviewed by Scott Pierson, Vice President of HVAC & Market Strategy at Encompass Supply Chain Solutions. They talk about how much today’s customers really know about HVAC, why correct load calculations matter, and the risks of oversizi...

## Transcript:
Hey everyone, Gary McCriedy here. We're back with part two of my conversation with Scott Pearson. In this one, we talk about how much today's consumers really know about HVAC, why proper load calculations are so important, and some tools that can help run a better business. We also get into the impact of private equity in the trade, and how to keep quality work front and center. This is the HVAC know-it-all podcast, and I'm your host, well, at least for the intro, Gary McCriedi. This podcast is sponsored by Coolair Products, Master, Cintas, and Supplyhouse.com. Go to the show notes and click on the links to check these guys out. So, do you think consumers today are more well-versed when it comes to HVAC? Because I remember, I don't know, I've been in this industry for 20 years. I think you've been ahead for almost 30. Um, it used to be that consumers didn't know what anything about HVAC, right? You would ask them their favorite brand, they would say Honeywell. But now they they seem to have access to, you know, understanding of components, understanding of technology, understanding of pricing. To your point, you know, are they more educated now in the repair versus replace decision-m than they used to be? Yes, they are. I still encounter a lot of customers that think they know what they're talking about because they read a marketing blog online about how something works or should work and they're completely wrong when they approach me about it. I've had people come to me and say, "Hey, listen. Um I need a mini split for my daughter's hair salon and it needs to be a one ton." I said, "How do you know that?" He's like, "Well, it's got um it's this many square feet." I'm like, "Okay, but does it have like big windows? Like, does the sunshine in? Is there hair dryers going all the time? How many people are in there?" He's like, "Oh, yeah. Yeah." I said, "Well, then it could be more than a one ton that then you you need, right?" But then there's other customers that will have researched a brand and know the specifics of the brand and the the specifics of the machine and how it operates and the different maybe uh like when it comes to heat pumps for example the different grants that are out there and how they work and they've done all this research and they come to me and say yeah I've done all this already can we look at brand XYZ and look at grant XY Z and try to pull this all together and he's I I might need a load calculation, too. So, can you do that for me? So, there's customers like that that are high level and they they get it and they're great to work for. 100% great to work for. It's the customers that think they know what they're talking about but have no idea that are the worst because they have a thought in their head and when you try to say, "No, you're going down the right path, but there's still a lot of flaws in what you're telling me and we need to we need to adjust those." And some of them don't get it. Some of them still say, "Yeah, I I want the 12 ton or the the one ton." this is what I want. I'm like, well, I'm not putting a one ton in for you. So, you're gonna have to go find someone else that will because I'm not doing it because it's the it's the wrong thing to do. So, yes, your answer is right, but there's still a lot of customers out there that do not know how to comprehend the information correctly and they get it wrong when they ask you for a certain part or a certain brand of equipment or a certain application. Yeah, I think diagnosing you don't have the skill or the full understanding of the attributes at play, it could be dangerous, right? and go too big, you're gonna short cycle every single time. You go too small, you're gonna not have any moisture removed from the building. So, I mean, you run the risk of of some severe damage to a property, right? And am I saying that right? Yeah. No, if you go too big, you are going to short cycle for sure. Going small. So, this is why where a load calculation comes in. So, it's all relative to that. So, when you say too big, it's relative to what the actual load is. If you go too big as opposed to the load, yes, you're going to short cycle. You go too small as opposed to the load, you're not going to cool and dehumidify effectively. So, yeah, you're you're right. I think that's important for consumers to understand. Um, I do like the idea that you kind of listed off some things that consumers could do research on and ask for that might be great expectations for home service providers, but also great expectations for consumers to to do research around. Loads, I think, are the big one, right? Unless you have that software and and understanding of how to to plug in the variables, you're not gonna be able to truly diagnose or, you know, size up equipment, right? So, that whole, you know, legacy, you know, thumb up against the building way of size up a three-tonon system, you know, the building science has changed dramatically over the last 20 years. You got to account for that. So, yeah. And there's I don't have the software to do it. I just hire someone. cost me $200 $300. And I I give them either building drawings or I tell them the the height of the home, the square footage of the home, how many windows, which way it faces, how much of the basement is exposed, approximate age of the windows, roof, doors, all that kind of stuff. And then it's all of that information is used and taken and then the load calculation is spit out. You can't just say like here where I live there's a rule of thumb that every thousand square ft is one ton of cooling and it really depends on on a lot of different factors. You can't just say that it it has to be like for instance my home I my my unit is is oversized. I put it in 10 years ago and 10 years ago, no sorry, more than 10 years ago, almost 15 years ago, I put it in and I wasn't really in tune with with that kind of stuff back then because I hadn't started HVAC know and I hadn't dug into the all the processes and all that kind of stuff. Now I know my unit is oversized because I hear it come on and bang off and then come on and bang off or really it should be running steadily on a hot day. Should be running steadily for hours through that day. So, I'm getting the the cool air to the places where it needs to go and I'm dehumidifying at the same time instead of on for half an hour, off for 15 minutes, on for half an hour, off for 15 minutes. It's not good for the equipment either. When I talk to my friends and family, the one thing that escapes them is the HVAC isn't just for hot air or cold air. You know, the the biggest component of is to dehumidify the air so that you can actually regulate the air. Yeah. Y. So, that's cool. So, you're talking and doing things with lots of different parties in the industry, and I I think you've touched on a little bit today, but you've had the ability to go and look at technology tools and business tools in in the industry. If you were talking to a young entrepreneur that just got licensed, you what would you suggest as, you know, great tools to to look at to run a better, more accurate, efficient business in HVAC for a small business owner? Um, well, first of all, you need a good CRM tool, and that's dependent on what you're doing. Is it commercial? Is it residential? I mean, there's there's ones that are really good for residential. There's ones that are really good for commercial. Are you a small business? Are you going to scale? Do you want to scale that business? So, a good CRM tool is very, very important because it minimizes paperwork. Um, it keeps everything organized for you. um all your quoting, all your invoicing, your scheduling, all that stuff is kept sort of in in the one place. So that that is first and foremost the thing that you should um be looking at to organize yourself. Do you have one that you prefer more than others? Well, I use Jobber currently. I've used Jobber for the last 3 years. It's good for me because I'm just a oneman show. I I don't know um specifically for the commercial side. If you're trying to build something, if you're trying to scale and you're trying to create equipment lists and stuff like that, right now, Jobber doesn't have the capability to do that. I'm hearing uh like the larger uh ones like Service Titan might be good for scaling and growing on the commercial side, but if you're doing residential and and you're just sticking to resi stuff and and you're not really doing a ton of commercial and you're not trying to create equipment lists and stuff like that, then Jobber, the House Call pros of the world and stuff like that, those would be those would be sufficient to to get going and start off. So I think you're saying is it really depends on the size and goals of the business. Yes. There's options, you know, Service Titan for something that you want to scale into something large. And I know they have lots of integrations which is cool. Most of them have integrations with lots of different other apps and and stuff like a review process plugin where it's an integration where the you integrate with a review type company and when you're done that integration sends back uh to the customer, hey um thank you for your services. Now can you review us? And then that review hopefully is a fivestar and it goes onto your onto your Google ratings or whatever. So there there's review uh companies out there that integrate with they'll integrate with all of them. Just there's a lot of cool things that that these CRM tools have to offer. That's cool. What other technologies are are good? Are you doing anything with XOI or or Blue on or any of the other mobile app functions? So XOI and HVAC know it all once work together to kind of promote what they were doing. Um but I don't specifically work I I know what they do. Um, I haven't spoken to them in a few years, so I don't know how they've advanced their business, but from when I work with them, it it was super cool because a younger technician could be on the site and through the XOI platform, an older technician that with a lot of experience could be back at the office helping them through things, sending pushing, I guess, information to them. And at that time, I remember seeing a video and the technician back at the office could actually if he was having trouble communicating like, "Hey, go over to that component there." But he could actually if the the technician on site was was holding their phone and it was on the XOI platform, the technician back at the office could circle a component and then point to it and go, "Yeah, that component there. Go over to that one." So, it's not confusing. So, there I saw a lot of benefits to that to help the younger generation out trying to be better service technicians. That's a cool one. That's that's a good conduit to kind of our our opening topic of culture and and generation gap. So, hey, I think we're running up on time. What is your if you had to just name one big thing to leave either consumers or contractors or OEMs with, pick one and and call it out. Um, your chance to to tell the world. So, I I've had many conversations about this and this seems to be a bit of a hot topic these days. the big companies that go in and take over the the smaller companies like the uh the private equity firms. It seems to be happening in almost every industry. And that's fine if if somebody wants to buy out a company, invest in it to make money. It's a business. I get it. But the reports I'm hearing back from a lot of a lot of individuals that have been bought out or their companies been bought out by private equity is that the focus turns to selling and the focus turns to not only selling but increasing prices of installs to force the consumer to buy a new system. And that new system is now put on a rental program because on the rental program it's it's like leasing a car or financing a car. It is cheap, it's affordable, it's attractive, but at the end of the day, they're paying three or four times the amount for that install at the end of that. And there's a lot of horror stories of um when people aren't paying, there's leans and stuff on their home and all that kind of stuff. and some of the news magazines that have been out there have covered some of these um practices. Now, I I don't know. I'm not saying all PE companies are bad, but I'm saying from what I'm hearing, cuz I keep my ear to the ground, is that a lot of this has turned into less technical training and more sales training and it's diminishing the value of what we do in the field. And here's my take on it. Sure, you can go into a home and try to sell some sort of IAQ item to make money or a smart thermostat to make money or or whatever it might be in that case. But there's also an opportunity to understand the system better and to put some test tools all around it and say, "Hey, listen. You have really bad air flow and I've diagnosed this and here's a report I can show you from all these digital tools that we have now. we can fix this for you by doing this, this, and this. And now there's validity to it. And now it's not shady practice. Now we're actually selling an ethical, it's not, it is selling, but we're we're now we're providing a solution, an ethical solution to an actual problem. And I think that more and more companies should be teaching their technicians how to go out and find legitimate issues on a job site rather than just blindly selling things that someone may not even need and then leave behind a glaring issue that's still in that building or in that home. And that's kind of my beef with it. Just from keeping an ear to the ground and listening to conversations from Canada, the US all all corners of the North America, I'm hearing the same thing. So that's interesting. So I I got a lot of good information out of what you just said. One of the things that resonates in my head though is that if you're teaching text a simple solution, a customer, you're leaving behind potential opportunities that could have been one a better relationship with that consumer. Um but two, just better quality work. Like if you're trying to sell a Chick-fil-A model, but you could have been selling a, you know, five-star James Beard type experience at the same pricing, but potentially, you know, more penetration to that that customer. To me, that's leaving opportunity on the table. Um, which seems contrary to the idea of what private equity is trying to do, right? Yeah. And and I mean, and when it comes down to the swap out of the machine, because that seems to be the main goal. It seems to be like, "Okay, you need a a new combustion induced draft motor. That's going to be $2,500." And they're like, "Whoa, $2,500 bucks for that little motor." And and I think the tactic is to say, "But yes, we can get you a whole new system for $89 a month or something like that." And then people are like, "Oh, a whole new system for 89." And then it it's it's a tactic and it works because people like that low monthly bill that they know is coming each month and they they budget for it and afford it and now it's it's not even a thing anymore just like a car lease or a car uh financing loan. So, but the thing is we have an opportunity to replace the machine with the correct size. We have a here, at least where I am, if you go into almost any home, the furnace is oversized. It's oversized probably by 30% in most cases. Like in my home, I've got a 60 an 80,000 BTU furnace. I could probably get away with something that's in the like 60 or 50. I I know I could. And they're box swapping and they're putting in the same equipment that was already there. But if they changed the equipment to the correct size and just did that very inexpensive load calculation and they knew how to do this and knew how how to implement it and get it in motion, when they change that box over, that person's going to have a way better experience, more comfort, cuz now our air flow is is better. We don't have as much static pressure in the duct cuz we're not trying to move too much air through it. And now the system runs for a long period of time. in that long period of time, the air has time to mix and flow and get to the the nooks and crannies of the building where before when it was oversized, the centralized thermostat would go, "Yep, let's shut down. I'm satisfied." Where that slow approach to heating or cooling a home, that centralized thermostat will shut off like later than it than it would with the bigger equipment and the home will feel more comfortable. And this has happened time and time again with people that do this the right way. So there's opportunity to do things the right way. And I think a lot of especially residential shops, they're more about selling and making profit rather than about actually giving the homeowner, the customer, client the the right experience they deserve to be honest with you. Yeah. I think you can find a good marriage of the both, right? You can make good money, but do quality. Of course you can. Of course you can. Do quality work, use real parts, do the things that matter, take care of people. Um, you know, it's it's not just a a process, it's a people thing. So, Mhm. Awesome. Let's wrap it up. I want to thank you. Appreciate what you're doing. Keep doing it because we love being a part of it and you got a big influence over a lot of people in this industry. So, keep it up and I appreciate you, man. Thank you, Scott. I'll see you.

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# ID: 3CuCBsWOPA0

## Title: The Generational Divide in HVAC for Leaders to Retain & Train Young Techs with Scott Pierson Part 1

## Type: video

## Author: HVAC Know It All

## Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CuCBsWOPA0

## Upload Date: 2025-08-07

## Views: 1062

## Likes: 30

## Comments: None

## Duration: 1348 seconds

## Thumbnail: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/3CuCBsWOPA0/maxresdefault.jpg

## Description:
In this special episode of the HVAC Know It All Podcast, the usual host, Gary McCreadie, Director of Player Development and Head Coach at Shelburne Soccer Club, and President of McCreadie HVAC & Refrigeration Services and HVAC Know It All Inc. takes the guest seat as he’s interviewed by Scott Pierson, Vice President of HVAC & Market Strategy at Encompass Supply Chain Solutions, to discuss the current state of the HVAC industry. They discuss the industry's shifts, like the push for heat pumps, an...

## Transcript:
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the HVAC Knowit All podcast. I'm Gary McCriedi, your usual host, but today the tables are turned a bit. I'm the one being interviewed by none other than Scott Pearson, who's stepping in as your host today. We're going to dive into some exciting topics, including the evolution of HVAC technologies and the misconceptions that have lingered in the industry. We'll also be talking about how HVAC professionals can adapt to the everanging landscape and why staying updated with modern tools is more important than ever. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the conversation as Scott takes the reigns today. Let's get into it. Top contractors across the US only. This one's going to be pretty cool to expand your marketing reach. Property.com is an exclusive network for certified pros. You can get your own custompropy.com webpage for free. You can also get AI powered reputation management and get some great lead generation and prospecting tools. The know before you go tool is pretty cool. It gives critical homeowner data like how much they've paid on past jobs. Joinpropy.com's exclusive network now to expand your reach with homeowners across the US. Use mccry.propy.com. So that's mcc r e a d iopy.com to fill out the form to get approved. All right, welcome back. So today is a fun day. I have got one of the coolest guys in HVAC, the one, the only, the HVAC know-it-all, Gary McCree. Gary, welcome. Thank you. Appreciate the invite here. And you called me the Hback know-it-all, but I I really have lots to learn on the industry and I just want to make sure the audience doesn't think that I think I know it all, but I I appreciate I appreciate the nod on that, Scott. Well, as far as I'm concerned, Gary, you are the HVAC know-it-all. You're plugged into all the different facets that really that you're giving education to technicians, you're giving education to manufacturers. You know, the content that you're putting out there over the last several years is is wide reaching. So, as far as I'm concerned, you're the know-it-all. That's why we want to pick your brain today and understand really where you see you kind of the shifts in the industry and and what they're doing uh from a a channel perspective. So maybe before we we dive into it, you want to give the group a caption of what you're doing from HAC know-it-all and what the mission is? Yeah, the HVAC know brand was started almost it'd be nine years ago in August. I think it is 2016 I think we we launched in August. It just came as a it came about for a few reasons. One, I saw a lot of negativity in the HVAC space. There was a bunch of groups on Facebook and it was all bashing and it was just negative. It was just back and forth arguing and fighting and I'm better than you and all that kind of stuff. So, I wanted something positive for the industry. And I also had a love for photography. All through high school, videography, even as a as a kid when I used to write story books, my teachers used to say, "Yeah, you should be a writer one day." And uh so I kind of took the love for all of that stuff and my passion in my profession of HRA and and put it into one. And it just started as a a small little blog on Facebook. And it was just about my day and what I did and how I fixed something or the tools I used. And the name I needed a name that would resonate. It would resonate online like a handle. But I wanted to get a name that would be like, "Hey, what is that?" And why? Like, if I just called myself HVAC Pro, like it's not as sexy or is as attractive as the name HVAC know-it-all. And for all the wrong reasons, I got a bunch of attraction off the beginning. People thinking that I thought I knew everything. And I had to explain it over and over and over and over for a couple years. until people finally understood. And it's it's based on humor. It's based on sarcasm. It's also based on all the conversations that I seen happen in all these other Facebook groups. like how how can you tell another HVAC technician that's on a job in let's say Arizona but you're in Alaska or you're in Newfoundland telling that guy how to do his job on that site when he doesn't know or she doesn't know what the heck is going on on that site I I mean yes you can point out aesthetic things and all that kind of stuff but it just seemed like everybody knew everything and I'm like we we got to think of a name here that resonates with the industry and the times and that is going to attract people to it. And I said, "HVAC know it all out loud." And I said, "That's it. That's the name." And my wife looks at me and she goes, "Are you sure?" And I said, "Yes, 100% sure." As soon as I said it out loud, I'm like, "That's the name that's going to attract people to the brand. If it's bad in the beginning, I'll fight for that. I'll fight for it." And I I did. And people now understand what the brand is about. It's about bringing recognition to different tools and methods and being forward thinking, digging in deeper than the average person would to figure out what why does a heat pump work in the winter or why do we flare at a 45 degree angle? Why do we nitrogen brace? All of this stuff, it matters. And and why are we doing it? And yes, there's times where we just have a little bit of fun. We we create memes and and poke at the emotions of other technicians, but that's fine. It creates conversation. It creates engagement. Sometimes it leans on the negative side at times, but that happens online. People are negative online and that's just the way it is. But at the end of the day, if the conversation is had and five people in on on the planet look at it and go, you know what, maybe I will change up how I do things, then there's there's a benefit there. Yeah. Positive meets quality work. I love that. That's that's a that's a cool mission and I love what you're doing. And obviously, you've got you've created a community. Um, so I think to pick your brain a little bit about what you're seeing and what you think is to come is is important basically because you you represent a lot of people here and so let's dive into that. Um, I'll start with the the big bullet question. What do you think today? I mean there's a lot of moving variables in the industry as it is the last couple years. Um, what do you think is is the big hot topic right now and something that as a whole industry we we've got to really study and monitor and engage and and fix? Is there anything that's just like wow that's the biggest problem in HVAC? One of the biggest problems in HVAC is the lack of Oh man, that that's a loaded question man. There's so many things I could say right now. There's a lot of changes happening. There's the A2Ls. There's uh a big push for heat pumps. There's a bunch of different ways that we are moving away from brazing with different types of mechanical fittings. There seems to be in the residential space a lot of training towards sales rather than training towards technical ability. So let's let's I could I could talk about any of them really. Let's talk about the the skilled labor topic. I think, you know, often we have spent the past five or six years saying there's a there's a gap in skilled labor. We're we're diminishing the number of techs that are in the field. What's your your stance on that? I think there's a lot to unpack there. Oh, definitely. Definitely. Um kids nowadays, they can they see an opportunity to to sit on a couch and open up a laptop and they can create a business and start making money if they're smart enough and know how to do it. So, there's that. there's the opportunity that the internet has provided. From what I understand or from what people tell me, young kids don't want to work these days. I don't know if that's necessarily true or not. I think that the way that we've motivated kids, like when I got into the trade, it was it was the the yelling, the the screaming, the insults. It drove me in a way. Um, you got to be a special character, I think, to be driven by that negativity because you're going to want to go out there and prove people wrong. But in a way that can that can turn people into in in into almost nothing and deflate them very very quickly. I was lucky to have support um from my family and parents and stuff to keep pushing through and keep pushing through and and I think that's probably why I was able to to do so through the negativity. But nowadays, the kids are growing up differently. I mean there is a lot of more focus on mental health and stuff like that and if they walk into a job site and there is a toxicity there and they're not enjoying it. Well, they're going to leave because why would you why would you put yourself through that? And I get it. Some people bear with it and they stick with it. Some people don't want any part of it because mental health is a big thing these days and it's talked about a lot. So maybe we got to change the culture around a little bit on how we train and how we retain young kids. Doesn't help when the older generation of technicians are dismissive about things and are coming down on the young kids cuz they want to try the digital tools and digital gauges and press fittings and they want to leap into the new types of things that are available to them that have proven to to be useful. But the older generations are are talking down to them and speaking down to them. And I've seen this fight. It's a generational thing. And I I think in even 200 years ago, the generation gap probably fought about different things like this. But just having an open mind about how to to train kids is is a different is a different outlook these days. And and we talked before you hit record about how I'm involved in soccer. And I see that in in even training kids on a soccer field. the old approach. It works to a certain extent, but you have to look at the the body language, the way they communicate to you when you when you bring them to the limit of the old school. Then you got to come back and then you got to add a little bit of new school implementation into the training. You got to pull that old school back a little bit and go, okay, this might not be working here. Let's try something different, a more modernized approach. So, I think that could help. Just changing the culture around a little bit could help. Yeah, that's an interesting take on it because not many people highlight the the generational gap and the cultured shift that needs to to occur there. I I love that topic. Um because when you think about it, yeah, it's a changing market always, right? You've got to you got to adapt to the market as it changes. Um things speed up. Sometimes the old way of doing things isn't the best way. and transactionally to just walk through the workflow of repair in the field. There's a lot more available today than there was 5 years ago, even just pre-COVID. We've got a whole different way that the supply chain works. Um, a whole different expectation of how to research information and and ID parts and and transact a part. You know, I think that's becoming more easily adopted by the younger generation that, you know, some will say, "Oh, you don't have the skills to make that diagnosis." But, you know, you're just changing out parts where, you know, the older generation might have been a great mechanic and and prides himself on that, but can't adopt to the digital frontier that's presenting itself from a an e-commerce standpoint and buying things, right? Yeah. I'll ask you about how Encompass works to to solve those problems. But the the thing is I found it funny cuz my son who just turned 16 today and just actually got his G1, which is a a driver's permit. He just actually got it an hour ago. So, we were just upstairs talking to him about it. Awesome. Awesome. Um, and he was in a parking lot driving for the very first time right after he got it. Anyway, he was trying to figure out a problem with with something and his generation figures out problems in a different way and I can't remember what it was, but he had figured it out and he was using the chat bots on a website and he's like, "Okay, chatbot asking questions and he figured out after speaking to I don't know if it was a real person or the and it's something that I'm not used to and and now when anytime I see I'm scrolling something and I see that the fact there's a chat at there instead of me trying to go through the internet and find the answer, I'll just be I'll hit the chat, I'll ask a question, within a few minutes, I've got my answer. And and I think that is a tool that if you gave it to a an older person and I'm not trying to bash the older generation, it's just new. It's new to them and they they haven't grasped it or or they don't like it. But I tend to lean on a lot of what I do with HVAC know all the terminology I use and stuff to to communicate with people, it comes from my kids. They're almost consultants to me, you know what I mean? That the terms they use and then I I try to implement some of those terms when I'm speaking on like Instagram or Tik Tok or whatever because it resonates and relates to them. And I talk to my kids like there'll be like no cap, bro. And I'm like and at the beginning I'm like what what is no cap? What are you talking about? Like that's no not lying to you. And I'm like you get cap for the word lie. So now like I say that to my kids. I'm like, "Yeah, I went to the store. They didn't have what you wanted. No cap, bro." You know what I mean? So, I try to I try to use the terminology they use to communicate with them. And I try to use that in in my professional life, too, like online. So, yeah. So, I see the tools online that the kids are using these days to help them out, get the information faster. So, in your business, when it comes to part searching and and ordering and stuff like that, how does the modernization of the internet or online help with that stuff with your business? Yeah, I think you're setting me up for a good little picture. So, the think of the old way of doing things in the field. So, you diagnose a problem, you know, you understand the part that needs to be repaired. you know, the next stage of taking care of that end user, building owner, homeowner, whatever it is, you picked up the phone and you called the distributor and said, "Hey, what's my part number, price, and availability, right? You need those elements to write up a service ticket and potentially go and sell a job." Right? So, we've taken that information across a little over a 100 manufacturers, and we add manufacturers every week. Um, and we've gone to them and said, "Hey, we don't want to sell your equipment. We just want to stand in the corner of of parts and and distribution and we want to do it on a national scale, North American scale to say, "Hey, let's get it to to guys in the field fast." But in order to do so, let's give them the information up front and no phone calls, just a quick trip to the URL, encompass.com or partstown.com and say, "Hey, throw in the model number and to every machine that we've got access to in our our portfolio with manufacturers direct, you can queue up the parts, bill of material for that machine." So, instantly giving access to part number, price, and availability if you're our customer. um so the guys in the field don't have to rely on the good or bad skills of a counter guy at that distributor and aggregating all the brands into one place so that they can define a single process instead of having you know six or seven or eight different relationships with distributors across town. So trying to accelerate that wheel and create an online experience but I that's where we stop. I don't know what's your thoughts on on where HVAC and procurement and things could land 10 years from now. I hear you talk about your kids using chat bots like you know are we going to be buying HVAC through chat GBT in six years. How does that that look? So So yeah um I I think about the diminishing if you go to the grocery store the diminishing people that check out tills the people that that help you check out your groceries. those people like back in the day remember I remember used to go into the grocery store with my parents and there's like 10 lines of tills and they're all full and people are going through them now there might be three lines cuz or four depending and because everybody's doing the selfch checkckout now it's bittersweet in a way I mean there are jobs lost there and I think it's going to happen in the HVAC partelling business as well where the the counter guy or the countergirl girl might become obsolete. That's what I'm saying. It's it's bittersweet. So, but behind the scenes, there could be other jobs for those people that are knowledgeable enough to to work within the industry still because knowledge is power. And if you've got knowledge within this industry, I think there's a way that you can always still have a job and and contribute in some way or some form. But the question you asked, I I believe in 10 years from now, you're going to be seeing less counter guys. you're going to be seeing less brickandmortar type facilities and you're you're going to see a lot of part ordering online where it's like you click a QR code on the unit, things come up, the parts come up or I'm not sure how it works in in every application, but and then you you click the part order address and it shows up to the job site or your house or your office or wherever that may be and you take out the middleman. And I I said it's bittersweet because I think people will lose jobs, but at the same time, it's going to make things a bit more convenient and efficient for the the technician that's on the roof. Because sometimes, I will admit, I I've called the supplier, I'm on hold for 10, 20 minutes, and then it's click. Nobody's there anymore. Then I call back and I'm on hold. And I'm just wasting my time, right? And I'm wasting my try time trying to get the part that I need. Driving to the supplier. I back in the day, I used to drive to a supplier, oh, they don't have it, drive to the next one, they don't have it, drive to the next one, they don't have it, because I'd just be sitting on hold waiting. So, I might as well just drive around while I'm sitting on hold waiting to be serviced. Yeah, I didn't mean to to cut you off there, but I genuinely think that the Amazon model is basically going to come into many different industries and HVAC is is going to be one of them, I believe. Yeah, I think that's our general thesis and it's it's not a means to eliminate steps on the channel with counter staff. I think there's always a role for that local distributor to satisfy equipment and some materials, refrigerant, whatever is needed that that can't necessarily be UPS, right? But the idea that you could accelerate the channel and create some consistency to build math around at the technician or contractor level, you there's still a lot of untapped efficiency there that that we could really start to dig into from a procurement and scheduling standpoint. You know, today there's a lot of to your point unpredictable wasted time when it's back and forth phone calls or deep research on on parts ID, that kind of thing. You know, we are in a age of AI things like that can be eliminated, right? Communication can speed up. So interested to watch over the next couple years for sure. How do you think that's going to impact, you know, your earlier comment, the emphasis on on training technicians to be better salespeople versus mechanics? You how do you think that influences that with research and AI and and access to information? The access to information now is fabulous. First of all, because we can be better technicians today than some of the actually it's it's a catch 22. Here's the thing. When I was an apprentice, I didn't have the internet to to rely on. I had to go through that unit with a fine tooth comb for 2 three hours and find the problem myself. Nowadays, there's a lot of information out there that will help the technician do that more efficiently and faster, which is great, which is 100% in line with the way we should be servicing a client because they want quick, fast service. They don't want us on the site for 4 hours trying to diagnose a problem. But sometimes that happens. It's just just the nature of the beast. And going through it manually, you learn a lot of stuff. You learn because it's like, okay, it's not that. Now I got to go to the next thing and I got to pull the lid off the unit and trace this wire back there. And while you're going through that process, you actually become better at an an investigative um troubleshooter. When you have AI, you have the internet and stuff to tell you where that switch may be or which wire to follow, it's taking you to the place where you need to go. And I'm going to equate it to Google Maps or any map service that's out there. We drive a lot for soccer and throw the maps onto the screen on the thing and in the car and we drive there and we get there. I'll be like, you know what? I don't even know how to get home cuz I just followed the maps. I was like not really paying attention to where I back in the day. You would open your map book, you plan it out, and you have to remember in your head which turn to make and where you were going. And then on the way home, you knew exactly because you were paying really close attention to it. So again, there's there's some some bittersweet stuff here with what the world is giving us as far as smart technology, AI, and all that. I think we have to just proceed with caution a little bit. But the tools are great. The tools are fantastic for me now and at my age and my level rather than getting on the phone calling tech support or going through a big huge 100page manual and just going to something that I can type in a line. Hey um code such and such and such on VFD model blah blah blah blah blah and it pops up on the internet right away could be like code 7 no air flow bad air flow something like that. Then I go directly to the to the fan. Is it working? Is it is it going the correct speed? where back in the day I might spend an hour and a half reading a manual. It's making me more efficient. So, I I think we have to remember that the efficiency is key to to service customers quicker and better cuz customers are are getting smart. They have information too. They can look up a part and see what the average cost might be and then start poking at you going why am I paying this much for this part? So we have to we have to use that technology to our advantage right in a way because the customers are going to use it to their advantage too and we have to find how to get through

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